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Minutes TAB call (August 11, 2017)

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Action items

- Kevin to check with NIST UI group to see if they have tools or techniques to offer for getting UI feedback.

- Chet to send around revised draft of 2017 work plan

Agenda

1) Roll call

2) Approve agenda

3) Approve minutes

4) Status of public reviews

5) Status of action items

6) Review / work on work plan for 2017 / 2018

7) Continue work on Editor's Best Practice guide

8) AOB

Minutes

1) Roll call
Jacques Durand
Patrick Durusau
Chet Ensign
Stefan Hagen
Kevin Mangold

Invited expert:
Ashok Malhotra

2) Approve agenda

Jacques requests adding helping with the IT plan. Chet says it is included in item 6, work plan. No other discussion. No objections. Agenda adopted.

3) Approve minutes

- 21 July 2017: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tab/201707/msg00001.html
- Burlington face-to-face: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tab/201708/msg00006.html

No discussion on minutes. No objections. Minutes unanimously approved.

4) Status of public reviews

MQTT Version 5.0 CSPRD01 currently open, closes September 8th. Chet requests TAB provide comments.

No other first reviews currently scheduled.

5) Status of action items

- New AI: Chet to convert the Minutes Best Practices memo to MS Word and Open Office or PDF and distribute to chairs@ mailing list.
Completed and closed

- New AI: Notify chairs to share with their TCs our observation that hyperlinks done by cross-reference in MS Office or Open Office do not export to HTML or PDF. Only those done by hyperlinks to bookmarks work in all formats.
Completed and closed

- New AI: Send candidate 2017 / 2018 work items to TAB for further discussion
Completed and closed

6) Review / work on work plan for 2017 / 2018

We worked through the draft list starting with Strategic.

- Agree we want to keep the new IT plan on the list. Discussed ideas for how we may be able to help suggest cheap options for collecting feedback. Kevin volunteered to talk to the UI team at NIST to see if they have any tools to suggest.

Stefan asked if we can get a list of features provided and / or a mapping of functions from Kavi to the new tool.

- We agree that we want to keep involvement in self-certification on the list.

- Mind-mapping relationships between standards: no strong interest so we won't add it to the draft.

Turned to Tactical ideas, working up from bottom.

- Master citation list of OASIS Standards; this has been informally requested by the Board. List of commonly cited standards however we decided to drop; a lot of work to create and maintain.

- Drafting a presentation to new TCs about the TAB. This seems like low-hanging fruit and would be a step towards promoting spec quality. Stefan reminded us of the suggestion of open office hours so that editors would know where to go when they have questions. We agreed that this item plus mentoring new editors plus other ways to promote quality in TC specs are all related. We agreed to try to collapse these three bullets into one common theme.

- Build a 'database' of OASIS citation data. Consensus was to keep it but change the wording to avoid notion of a classical 'database.'

Rest of discussion tabled until next meeting. Chet to send revised list to TAB@ list.

7) Continue work on Editor's Best Practice guide

Carried over to next meeting. Ashok told us that he has added text to the draft and asks for feedback.

8) AOB

No other business raised. Meeting adjourned.

The next TAB meeting will be held by teleconference on 25 August 2017 at 19:00 UTC, 3:00 PM US eastern, 9:00 PM Cophenhagen.

Minutes submitted 14 August 2017 by Chet Ensign

Chat log

ChetE: I have guys here picking up rugs from downstairs so I may be delayed a few minutes.
ChetE: Agenda for today:
ChetE: 1) Roll call

2) Approve agenda

3) Approve minutes:

- 21 July 2017: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tab/201707/msg00001.html

- Burlington face-to-face: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tab/201708/msg00006.html

4) Status of public reviews

MQTT Version 5.0 CSPRD01 - ends 08 September 2017

5) Status of action items

- New AI: Chet to convert the Minutes Best Practices memo to MS Word and Open Office or PDF and distribute to chairs@ mailing list.

- New AI: Notify chairs to share with their TCs our observation that hyperlinks done by cross-reference in MS Office or Open Office do not export to HTML or PDF. Only those done by hyperlinks to bookmarks work in all formats.

- New AI: Send candidate 2017 / 2018 work items to TAB for further discussion

6) Review / work on work plan for 2017 / 2018

- https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tab/201707/msg00023.html
- https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tab/201708/msg00000.html
- https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tab/201708/msg00008.html
- https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tab/201708/msg00014.html

7) Continue work on Editor's Best Practice guide

ChetE: Also, for item 6: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tab/201708/msg00042.html
ChetE: Attending: Chet, Stefan, Ashok, Patrick, Jacques2.
ChetE: 2. Meeting minutes
ChetE: No discussion. No obj. Minutes approved.
ChetE: 2. Agenda
ChetE: Jacques: should we add - moving forward on the IT plan. to be discussed under item 6.
ChetE: No further disc. No obj. Agenda approved.
ChetE: 4. Public reviews
ChetE: https://www.oasis-open.org/news/announcements/invitation-to-comment-on-mqtt-v5-0-ends-sept-8th
ChetE: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TAB/?selectedTab=com.atlassian.jira.jira-projects-plugin:summary-panel
ChetE: Stefan - notes that he is on the MQTT TC so may not be neutral
ChetE: Stefan: version 4 was already used
ChetE: 5 ACtion items
ChetE: - New AI: Chet to convert the Minutes Best Practices memo to MS Word and Open Office or PDF and distribute to chairs@ mailing list.
ChetE: Closed
ChetE: - New AI: Notify chairs to share with their TCs our observation that hyperlinks done by cross-reference in MS Office or Open Office do not export to HTML or PDF. Only those done by hyperlinks to bookmarks work in all formats.
ChetE: Closed
ChetE: - New AI: Send candidate 2017 / 2018 work items to TAB for further discussion
ChetE: closed
ChetE: Kevin joins
ChetE: Strategic

- Support Scott and Greg in the development of the new OASIS IT tools and interfaces (e.g. testing; 'as a chair, how will i do this?'; documentation of new user experience)

- Support staff with the self-cert undertaking in the CTI and LegalDocML TCs

Tactical

- Build a database of the citation data that could feed editorial tools / TC dashboards (e.g. to automatically generate template / starter documents immediately or to feed a widget on a TC home page that lists all the work products under development by the TC and what stage they are in)

- Find opportunities to automate tasks to help members / staff increase productivity (e.g. generating the text of announcements, ballots, templates)

- Develop ideas for how we might mentor TC editors at the beginning of their work

- Develop steps beyond simple checklists that can help promote spec quality (e.g. encourage more use of test assertion documents)

- Develop presentation that TAB members could make to TCs during their early meetings

- Develop an additional "commonly cited standards" list for standards like Unicode that are cited a lot but not one of our master cite lists

Guidance / Best Practices:

- Complete the OASIS Editor's manual

- Draft OASIS Chairs manual

- Draft advice to TCs on how to use collaborative editing tools

- Develop an OASIS master citation list to match the lists for IETF and W3C

- Review / organize TAB homepage and TAB documents

Ongoing

- Comments to TCs on 1st public review

- Maintain citation master lists

Other ideas:

- Stefan, you mentioned something about TC members starting to debate the spec late in the game, e.g. over keywords, after the editors have put in lots of time on the work. You mentioned 'catalog of trigger events' - Do we have a proposed idea there?

- What might the TAB do using an open source project? (e.g. invite active members to come give us input on documents? Host alternate publishing toolkits like Ken Holman's DocBook publishing package or Jim Amsden's ReSpec OASIS customization? Develop a citation list in GitHub? - this last one I don't recall the specifics)

- Returning to the topic kicked off by the 'mind map' email - something that we might build showing the relationships of OASIS standards?
ChetE: Discussion of contribution to IT plan
ChetE: J: confident that staff has made the right choice. After product selected, still a lot of work to do. We may need a process to include TAB in the loop at appropriate times when we can provide input.
ChetE: P: understand Scott's point but that's not relevant to the question of requirements. If we think the homepage of the TC should display the last 5 email subject lines, that's a requirement. Why are we moving from the unknown (Kavi) to a new unknown? Do we really want to proceed by the seat of our pants? Having said that, I do think the worst thing we could do is have staff / tab be the only inputs into the UI. Why don't we use some of the tools that gather UI feedback that our community can weight in on.
ChetE: P: so tab should make suggestions on some of these cheap ways to get feedback? E.g. select people to give feedback then give them some tasks to do and video them trying to use the IF. There are other ways to do this.
ChetE: K: a cheap way to do that is to put screen shots in a powerpoint and have buttons to click to take people to other slides and record - we have a UI group that does stuff like that all the time
ChetE: K: I can talk to them next week and find out what tools they suggest.
ChetE: S: 2 - could someone give the TAB (or a focus group) a mapping from a Kavi items (e.g. a workflow) to the new system
ChetE: S: 3 - when it is up and running somewhere, let's get some guinea pigs (e.g. OData TC members) go play with it and give us feedback
ChetE: S: e.g. "here is a meeting - how do I record attendance?
ChetE: 1 - coudl we have a list of features that this new product will deliver
ChetE: S: we shouldn't stand in for 500 users - but spotting a gap in available feature set is something we could do
ChetE: Self - certification?
ChetE: K: what would we do exactly?
ChetE: J: there is a lot behind the concept of certification
ChetE: J: would like to keep it on the agenda and be kept in the loop
ChetE: A: +1
ChetE: Mind maps exercise
ChetE: J: let's see if there is any interest - if someone wants to why not giving it a try. Not for me though
ChetE: S: There is a lack of publication of relationships between initiatives - we could produce something that e.g. could identify gaps - Not for me at this point though I would support

Stefan Hagen: S: Esp. not standards, but more coarse TC charter areas etc

ChetE: A: agree that this would be useful - it would tell people where OASIS work is concentrated - however, who would do the work? who has enough understanding of what each TC is doing to identify connections?
ChetE: So I will leave the topic off
ChetE: Tactical - from the bottom - 'commonly cited standards'
ChetE: S: not intersted now - who maintains is an issue
ChetE: A: P, is this something you want to do? P: 2 things going on - one is the standards cited by OASIS TCS - my awk skills are up to the point of doing this? 2nd - is there a way to pull the ISO standards similar to what we are doing for the IETF and W3C. Our TCs probably look at the JTC1 mostly so we could pull those out. It could be half a page that we identify as we go through our public reviews.
ChetE: So we will drop it from the list for now but see if this emerges from our work
ChetE: Presentation to TCs about the TAB?
ChetE: S: together with suggestion for an open office hours, editors will know when they have questions where to go.
ChetE: J: absolutely - this could be a low hanging fruit that we could do right away and would have benefit - related to promoting spec quality
ChetE: J: agree that we need a single entry point for TCs for TAB advice
ChetE: S: this + mentoring + other ways to support spec quality all related
ChetE: S: get across the message "We can help you while you're writing the spec.
ChetE: J: very important to get early help creating a spec so that you avoid the problems
ChetE: Chet: collapse those 3 bullets into one common theme

Patrick: stepping away for a minute

ChetE: Build a database of citation data
ChetE: S: ACM, IEEE offer wonderful tools for getting the citations

Patrick: back

ChetE: Also how can we plug those into tools (e.g. give the citations ready to copy from Word) -
ChetE: S: thinking of a master list - interested in working on this
ChetE: P: what sorts of tools are you thinking? The premise is that everybody is using identical tokens for that spec (e.g. [RFC2119]) - so OASIS editors would have to have a canonical representation - it is all doable - we could script something but the script wouldn't know what they meant -
ChetE: P: something worth working on even if it just takes some of the load off you
ChetE: S: I'm focusing more on things that would be useful to editors
ChetE: Consensus - we'll keep the item but it needs soem rephrasing
ChetE: AOB
ChetE: S: I can start adding comments
ChetE: A: I added a lot in section 5 - plase provide feedback

Stefan Hagen: I have this one: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10s_66FDOq-3-6TxlJ_qs3Rq3HSGdFunzYnaTs6nT6Uo/edit?ts=597b452e#heading=h.m6181yso1vbg

ChetE: A: - we need to check the versions - may have two being drafted

20170811 (last edited 2017-08-14 20:27:43 by chet.ensign)